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Author Topic: A Report on LIRR Engine 39 from Strasburg, PA.  (Read 11263 times)
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Fred

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« on: August 30, 2008, 12:51:14 AM »

Gentle Forum Members,

The Trustees of the Railroad Museum of Long Island are pleased to announce that work is proceeding on Engine #39’s boiler at the erecting shops of the Strasburg Railroad Company, Strasburg, Pennsylvania.

On Tuesday, August 5th the boiler was loaded on Boilermatic Industrial Welding’s low boy tractor and trailer for the trip to Strasburg. 



Boilermatic Industrial Welding of Medford, NY remains the lead contractor on this Suffolk County Department of Public Works project.  From the beginning Strasburg has been Boilermatic’s consultant on the restoration of 39’s boiler and remains a sub-contractor.



On Monday, August 18th I had the pleasure of meeting with Shop Foreman, Rick Musser and President & Chief Mechanical Officer, Linn Moedinger to go over the work Strasburg has begun. 

At this point in the project we will be focusing on the rebuild of the Belpaire firebox.  Like the PRR K4s #1361, our LIRR G5s #39 firebox suffers from the same faulty Pennsylvania Railroad design.  The thickness of the roof sheet is too small for the distance between staybolts on top of the firebox.  Calculations by today’s FRA standards, with this design structure, give us less than a 180 psi operating pressure.  A normal G5s operating pressure is around 208 psi with a design structure of between 211 – 215 psi. 

Strasburg will replace our roof sheet with new, heavier steel and/or more staybolts to bring the assembly up to FRA standards necessary to operate at our required pressures.  Note the horizontal seam outlined by the yellow arrows.   This seam is where the new roof sheet will begin and go up over the top of the firebox to the seam on the other side.



It is common knowledge that the Pennsylvania Railroad used “dirty” steel in the construction of their engines.  Impurities and elements contained in this steel are notorious for giving unreliable UT readings.  Strasburg has had experience working with this “Pennsy Steel” and knows what to look for in the UT readings and adjust accordingly for the variations.

Here we see a fresh grid has been laid out across the boiler.  New Ultrasonic Thickness (UT) readings are being taken and documented by Strasburg for work on the vessel and the FRA Form 4. 



A new backhead, door sheet and side sheets will be fabricated and installed.  Following is the existing backhead, to be replaced by Strasburg.



This photo shows the INSIDE of the backhead.  Note the welding seam above the sill outlined with yellow arrows.  It appears the LIRR did a repair to the lower section of the backhead at one time, replacing the lower section and sill. 



This neatly cut examination hole in the crown sheet will be repaired to FRA specifications with a deep penetration welded patch.  The support rods and staybolts within will be replaced along with the new roof sheet.



Inside the yellow circle we see a broken support rod.  All of the existing side support rods will be examined for strength before being reused.  Critical areas of the support rods will be x-rayed for cracks and stresses.  Faulty rods will be replaced.



The newly restored tender for Engine #39.  This fine work was completed at the Boilermatic Industrial Welding shops located in Medford, New York.



Engine #39’s new fuel oil tank.  Boilermatic Industrial Welding, Medford, New York.



We are very happy to have the project moving forward again after a hiatus of several months.  That being said, as with any major steam restoration project there is never enough money to do everything we need or want to do when we want to or need to do it.  Engine #39 is no different and I have stated on numerous Forum threads the need for additional funding to complete the drive train, brake system and locomotive frame components.  Donations large or small for this restoration project will always be appreciated.

As for when and where Engine #39 will run, or as “Dump the Air” cries out for: “Just stuff and mount this damn thing and be over with it,” it is too early to say.  Nothing would satisfy me more that to watch “Dump the Air” eat a fedora, but the truth of it is he may be six feet under before another generation may have to call in the mark on that boast. 

I personally, as a Trustee and as a historic preservationist, have come to view the restoration and historic rescue of this locomotive as something more than a RMLI/Long Island thing.  Currently there are no operating G5s locomotives anywhere.  Engine 35 and Engine 39 are the best candidates to be a live fire breathing G5s.  The importance of that design locomotive can not be underestimated.  It was a short hop freight hauler for the Pennsylvania Railroad and its quick pickup characteristics made her a superb choice for passenger service on Long Island.  Designed and constructed at the Pennsy Altoona Shops, this is one of the premier locomotives of the Pennsylvania system from the 1920’s through the “end of steam.”  A workhorse.  For future generations of Long Islanders and Pennsylvanians to come, a Pennsy designed G5s must be put back to work.

I do not lightly comment on “generations.”  We are all getting older.  The truth of it is many people who began work on restoring Engine #39 in the early 70’s have already “caught the westbound.”   Men who were active mechanics at Riverhead through the 1970’s and 1980’s have grown weary and no longer have the strength to turn the wrench.   Others who carried the restoration torch, turning a wrench during the 1990’s and filing for the $800,000.00 ISTEA grant have moved on to other jobs and locations throughout the country.  In yet, to this day, there are those that still dream and plan for the day Engine #39 builds steam and turns a wheel.  And I know some young men, (and maybe a young woman or two), who will keep the dream alive, carrying the torch into this 21st Century to “git ‘er done!”

Who am I, or who are you, to say this project will not get done?  Who are we to say “but this engine’s, like some other things, time has came and went.”  There are those who couldn’t “give a damn” for steam.  I know some that think the only thing that should run on rails today should have a diesel under the hood.  I respect their opinion, but as long as there are those who will strive to keep the steam engine alive for historic purposes, for the sake of not loosing another “art,” for teaching this country’s population about how its nation was built and the wonder and importance of the industrial age in America, I say we go for it and do all we can to save and restore what we can.  And that includes LIRR Engine #39.

Let us not be naysayers.  Let us not waste our precious time typing negative threads and trying to figure out what the “powers to be” know and are doing.  You can not begin to fathom it and the “powers to be” are going to maintain a certain level of confidentiality in this litigious world we live in.  The “powers to be” are diligent in their efforts to make this restoration a reality.  That said; get behind the work being done at RMLI on Engine #39 and at the Oyster Bay Railroad Museum on Engine #35.  It is important historical work and deserves support.  If you know of philanthropic avenues we can approach, offer them up.  Instead of crying and fuming on the Forums, have a bake sale and send the project a few dollars.  Sound funny?  I’m not kidding; every dollar we can put toward the project makes a difference. 

OK, I’ll get off my soap box now. 

My next visit to Strasburg will be over the weekend of October 18 and 19. I will prepare a report first for the RMLI Trustees and then offer up those observations to the Forum in the weeks following.  Sometime in late November or early December the Trustees of the Museum hope to make a one day trip down to view the progress of work on the boiler.  Maybe, by then, we will have some exciting news about additional funds that have come in to keep the restoration on track.  With your collective support and hard work, it may be so.

That’s all for now on #39.
de Don  n2qhvRMLI
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Anthony RMLI
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2008, 06:43:09 AM »

Very good Don, Glad to see we can post this now!

I hope to be the person to some day take over this project being a young supporter.

Anthony
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2008, 08:46:23 AM »

Don,
Thanks for posting this good news.
Steam is a work of art, G5 or not, a running steam engine on LI would attract many tourist and be just another source of revenue for the county.  It had side benefits as well for local businesses which I think a lot of people are not looking at by saying stuff and mount.
Unlike a diesel,(which some eairler "shells" with their nice curves and lines) look very classy and powerful a steam locomotive shows it's engine out the out side. You can see the "engine at work" by way of the drive rods and pistons. Most of the propulsion parts are on the out side visible to all to see, unlike the current generated by a prime mover to power traction motors.
Did the PRR use steal laden with high amounts of surfer?
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RGlueck
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2008, 09:48:05 AM »

Don, I'll speak as a collective voice for all of us "old hands" who frequent the forum, lurkers or not.  You update on the G5s is welcomed, if not a bit overdue, particularly with the details and photographs.  No doubt visitors to Strasburg would have started taking photos, posting them, and flying off in different directions of speculation. 

My long time hope has been to see the old girl fired up once more, and I'd personally welcome the completion of the job at Strasburg, as I've written before.  You make an excellent point with regard to any and all support for the restoration of the locomotive; it must have collective support from those who wish to see her run, those who love the LIRR history, and those who recognize the importance of historic restoration. 

What can we do?  Whether your heart is with RMLI or OBRM, we should seek out corporate sponsors, find out if our employers support historic preservation, hold yard sales, get civic organizations to back the idea, create trust funds, consider writing a donation into our estate planning, hold a raffle, work with the officers of both organizations to approach businesses, sell ads in a photo illustrated booklet about the preserved items at both sites; in short, "think out of the boiler"!

What is the worst thing to do?  Give up caring, give up hope.  Once you do that, you might as well consign the collections to rust and dust.  There are plenty of ways to criticize, and that's the easy, lazy, road. 

Good report.  Now, I'll knock the ball into RMLI's court, and tell you that we need regular, updated, illustrated progress reports.  They show that you value our interest and input, and you are serious about seeing this through.

Once again, thank you for the good work thus far.

        Dick Glueck
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Long Island 9627

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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2008, 09:57:31 AM »

Keep Us update on her work and make alot of the non believer's here started believing, its like i said in my video for the LIRR Steam saying in the middle KEEP THE DREAM ALIVE DON'T GIVE UP ON 35,39.

Joe
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run8

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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2008, 10:38:26 AM »

I think the news and illustrations you provided were excellent. While not a steam enthusiast, I can appreciate the strides being taken to restore a piece of Long Island's history, especially the railroad.

While I cannot vouch for other people than myself, I can say that there are people who don't know what they are talking about or don't know enough. It is depressing seeing something that was put into storage for restoration and seeing it rust away for decades. It creates a rather bitter feeling in the mouths of others, outsiders mind you about projects such as these. I will fully admitt that I am one of these. I have passed by RMLI and thought, "I cannot believe it's sitting there in the condition it is for years."


Indeed I am not a member and quite honestly, lots of people lead busy lives. Although when a public announacement is made such as this post, you will get people who will encourage you and perhaps rope in new members. That's what I feel your mission should be in junction with what is going on now. Display strides of progress in the restoration. I'm sure some of the points Mr. Glueck mentioned above, such as sponcers will have a greater chance of happening if updates and documentation such as this are made.

The main goal in mind right now is restoring that engine into museum conditions and worry about running it later on. I think the move to Strasburg was a bold move and I'm glad the group has finally realized that more progress could be made elsewhere. Why this wasn't done years ago I don't know. As someone else once stated, as time goes on things only get more expensive. That $800K grant may seem like a lot of money, but inflation is definitely a modern day worry and it does affect projects such as these.

Good luck with the restoration and keep us informed.

-Joe
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Fred

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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2008, 06:49:46 PM »

Gentle Forum Members,

Thank you for your kind words of support. 

I believe, without a doubt, there will be regular and frequent reports on the progress of Engine 39 from now on.  As I mentioned, look for new photos and another first hand report following the October 17 - 18 weekend.  After that look for more progress between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Another good Forum to follow the ongoing work at Strasburg is the railfan.net group:    http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=Strasburg   Often their personnel comment and post photos of work in progress there.  In fact, photos of #39's boiler delivery were up on that Forum as early as Friday, August 8th. 

Thank you again,
de Don  n2qhvRMLI
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M1_9174

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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2008, 08:58:12 PM »

Don, at least the pictures provide the sole proof that we've been waiting all those years, and now we are really believing in it now.  Lets hope that all continues to have the hope the first of two steam engines can be fully restored for Long Island.
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Neil Feldman
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 09:11:50 PM »

I can't think of a better reason to load up the family and head to LI than to see one of those engines up and running. Of course, if not to LI, than PA will have to suffice.  Cheesy
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RGlueck
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2008, 09:28:31 AM »

...if not to LI, than PA will have to suffice.  Cheesy
But think of the savings in gasoline! :-)

       Dick
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railfan365

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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2008, 04:52:39 PM »

It's good to learn of the progress. One question: Does the presence of an oil tank for fuel mean that #39 will not be hand-fired anymore?
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RGlueck
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2008, 08:38:29 PM »

N
It's good to learn of the progress. One question: Does the presence of an oil tank for fuel mean that #39 will not be hand-fired anymore?
Not in the least!  The fireman will have a 1 pint measuring cup, something like the cap of a detergent bottle.  Every few seconds, he will open the doors and toss in a cup of oil.
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li7039

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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2008, 09:57:22 PM »

NNot in the least!  The fireman will have a 1 pint measuring cup, something like the cap of a detergent bottle.  Every few seconds, he will open the doors and toss in a cup of oil.

and if that happens Dump will be eating a hat.
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Fred

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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2008, 10:12:20 PM »

Railfan 365

The direction of thought by MTA and LIRR officials at the time RMLI applied for the ISTEA grant was to eliminate the use of coal in Engine 39 on Long Island.  Environmental issues of smoke, cinders, coal ash disposal, and the possibility of fires along the right of way lead RMLI to move from coal fired to oil fired operation.  The grant was thus written.

As you can see, the oil tank is a self contained unit.  It sits in the coal bunker of the tender and can be removed.  This leaves the possibility of running on coal as well as oil.  Issues of replacing shake down grates as well as the environmental concerns still need to be addressed. 

At this point in the project we expect to continue with the plan to burn fuel oil.  Of course, with the cost of fuel oil being what it is today, coal might well be a more economical fuel.  We do have the option.

de Don  n2qhvRMLI
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Dump The Air

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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2008, 10:16:12 PM »

and if that happens Dump will be eating a hat.

Don't worry it would be a Rangers hat!
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